Sunday, August 29, 2010

Out of the Blue

Mo and I haven't seen much of each other lately.  It's football season, and I'm a coaching widow.  I'm used to it. He gets home after I'm asleep and leaves early in the morning.  We see each other on weekends, mostly.  So, today, I thought nothing of it when he woke up and asked if I wanted to go to breakfast.

We drove around a while, deciding on a place to eat.  Mo started talking about how overwhelmed he feels financially.  How it seems as though we are never going to drag ourselves out of this black hole of debt.  We discussed some things we can do to ease the burden (starting with selling our house back in our old town) and I told him that I was in no hurry to jump back on the baby bandwagon.  One thing led to another, and basically he told me that he is not going to take any more money out of the IRA for treatments.

As in NONE.

He said he wants to redo the testing that is covered by insurance and to keep trying naturally.

And that's it.

No adoption, no IVF.

He wants to focus on retirement.  He wants to ensure he still has some of that money left in 15-20 years when he does retire.  Basically, he said he's reached his limit.

I was shocked.  He has always told me that he'd spend whatever it took for us to be parents.  I always thought I'd have to be the one to say "no more, I can't do this."  I told him that I have, maybe, one more treatment cycle in me.  I told him that I want to move onto adoption.

He vetoed me completely.  It's not even on the back burner, as a last chance option, for him.  It's our baby, or no baby.  Period.

I just don't know how to react or how to feel.  I held it together pretty well, and was proud of myself for remaining calm.  I told him that I respected his opinions, that he was entitled to feel however he felt, and that he wasn't wrong for feeling that way.  I simply feel differently.

I know that, given time, he may change his mind.  I also know that he may not.  And, for the first time, we are not on the same page as to what the next step should be.  He wants to clear up our debt, our taxes and medical bills and lawyer fees before trying again.  I get that.  I can't, however, wait forever. I will be 30 in May...and I never thought I'd be having kids in my 30's.  And, to be quite honest, I can't imagine I will be any more fertile in my 30's than in my 20's.

I'm not making any decisions today, or tomorrow.  He told me later that he felt better just getting all of this off of his chest.  And that he knows he might change his mind later, when we aren't in such a financially dark spot.  I honestly believe he was simply feeling overwhelmed and, in expressing his frustration, gave vent to some other, deeper feelings, he had never voiced before.  Even he said to me "I'm not sure where all this came from."

I can't slip this under the rug and pretend it never happened.  It is too big.  And yet, I don't want to overreact too early either.  Things could still swing back the other direction before I feel like it's too late.  But, there is also a part of me that can now see a point in time where we might reach an impasse.  A time where I will have to choose.

I hope it never reaches that point.  If it does, I fear that my mind is already made up.  But, I'm curious, too.  I think most IF-ers think about this choice in the abstract, if not in the very real reality, during the course of infertility.

And so I ask: what would you, my fellow blogging buddies, do if your spouse wanted to stop treatments?  If they wouldn't consider adoption?  Which unthinkable would you rather face: a life of childlessness or a life of the unknown without your mate, and no other guarantees?

If it came down to it, what would you choose?  Your husband or a baby?

41 comments:

  1. Husband. For better or worse. Sorry he isn't on the same page as you.....

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  2. Hey there...great post although sorry it's come to such a point that you have to think about such topics. Us IF'ers always do but just hope that we never have such "talk". But for me...without a doubt...I would choose my husband and he tells me that he would choose me. We are family and that we would re-invent our lives that was childfree and live it to the best of our ability. IF has taken so much from both of us that we will fight tooth and nail not to take "us" away too. So in a nutshell...we would choose to live childfree together.

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  3. I am so sorry that you are having to go through this. In April, out of the blue, my partner A told me that he was done and he didn't want any more cycles. He doesn't even want to try naturally - and for him too adoption is out of the question. He wants/wanted his own biological child - and for various reasons donor eggs are not an option for us. I was and still am devasted but for me there wasn't a question - it is a childless life with him.

    That said, I am a lot older than you and my child-bearing years are almost at an end anyway. Not so for A who has been torn between staying with me or finding someone younger and more fertile.

    IF can just suck the life and joy out of us. I hope that you both end up back on the same page, whatever that page is.

    Thinking of you.

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  4. For me, I love my husband so much that I can't imagine denying him the one thing he wanted most, and I would hope that he would feel the same way about me. What I like best about being married is feeling like we are a team, we have each others backs, in all ways. I don't mean that we agree on everything, but "children or no children" is a major issue to disagree on. I could understand the not wanting to go into major debt point of view, but if my husband refused to TRY adoption, that would be a dealbreaker for me. (Of course I would try everything first, counseling, etc.)Especially foster adopt, where very little money has to be put out, and most states have adoption support for foster adopt so that the adoptive parent receives a monthly payment to help with the childs expenses until age 18 or graduation whichever comes later. If we tried all routes to have children and still had no success we'd go through that together when that time came. I really hope that he's just feeling the pressure and changes his mind. Hang in there..

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  5. That is such a hard decision :( I have always said I would do whatever it takes to be a mom, even if I have to do it alone... but then again, I am not married right now nor will I be anytime in the near future so I cant say what Id decide if I were in your shoes. I hope that he changes his mind and you dont even have to go there. Thinking of you ((hugs))

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  6. I thought not too long ago that I actually had to make that very choice and it broke my heart in two. It just seems like none of the options are complete, you don't want one without the other. I'm amazed at how calmly you recieved these news from your husband, well done! I hope it takes a direction you're both happy with. Big hugs!

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  7. I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. It has to be so hard.

    For me, it would be my husband. I can't imagine life without him. I worry, though, that that means that I don't want this enough. But, I know that he and I will always be there for each other. And, if we end up living child free, I really hope it is a decision that we come to together.

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  8. Oh wow. First, the answer to the question. For me, my husband would be my choice. HOWEVER, I didn't want kids my entire life nor have I viewed myself as a mother (dreaming of the one day...). I want children with DH it's not that I want children. That's just me though and everyone is different.

    I know what you're saying about the age thing, but you two still would be able to take some time, get your finances a bit better and then try things again. Two years? I don't know. Would that be something that you'd be willing to do? Thing is...after all of your knowledge, does it make sense to try naturally?

    Have you two ever considered counseling? I'm sorry if you have or if you've talked about it before, I just think it could be helpful for the two of you to get to the bottom of all this.

    Giant hugs.

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  9. It depends on the couple.

    Personally, I guess if my husband vetoed something that I felt so passionately about (eg adoption), how could I remain married to him?

    In my case, I got married young, and I have given my best years to this man and have given up a lot to remain committed.

    To have given all that, and yet, for him not to have considered my feelings and my passion? Hmmm. I would have a problem with that.

    All that being said, I could choose my husband. I do love him and care about his side of the story: but, I would most certainly not want to spend the next 30,40, 50+ years looking at him knowing that he had refused me my dream.

    But ultimately? There isn't a right or wrong choice. A person can be a great single parent in today's society. A person can be happily child-free in today's society. People do come to a middle ground.

    Jo, you make the choice that is right for you. If it something you feel very, very strongly about, then fight for it.

    Jo

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  10. When my husband and I first got together, we were not on the same page regarding children. I absolutely wanted them, and while he likes kids, his son was already 15 years old, and he had no desire to start over. I basically told him that, while I didn't already have kids, they were a part of the deal. I have always wanted kids and a large family, and we almost broke up over it. But he decided that he would be willing to have kids to be able to stay with me. Fast forward a few years, and we have gotten married, but no baby is forthcoming. So we start the treatments, and he was behind me 100%. If at any point before I was ready to give up, he had said he was done, it would have been a dealbreaker. I love him so much, and cannot imagine life without him, but I also cannot imagine being willing to give up children and grandchildren for one man who doesn't love me enough to do *whatever it takes* to give me the one thing I've always wanted.

    But he did stick with me through the treatments, and home studies, and everything else, and as a result I've got a biological son, and two foster daughters, and am smack in the middle of the 2ww after another round of treatments. And on this side of things, would I ever choose to live childfree? No way. Knowing what I know now about having the kids I've always wanted, would I still risk giving him an ultimatum if I had to go back and do it over? You betcha.

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  11. Whew, that is a tough question. Right now, in the abstract, I would say husband. However, this is one of those things that I don't think anyone can answer with certainty until they are truly faced with it.

    Stay strong.

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  12. Wow, I have read this post and these comments and still don't know what to say. It is so hard when you have to come to decisions like this and I remember having a similar converstaion with my husband regarding donor sperm and how he would never agree to do that as he couldn't cope with me carrying another mans child. I understand where he was coming from (and luckily the problem doesn't lie with him so we never had to pursue that discussion) but I do remember thinking at the time that I couldn't imagine life without children and that we would have a problem if it came to that. Having said that though, I would want to do everything in my power to come to a compromise and ultimately I think I would choose my husband but it would depend on the state of our relationship at that point because I can only imagine how much of a strain it could put on a marriage to have one person passionate about pursueing all options and achieving their dream and the other unwilling to compromise. (((HUG))) I hope it doesn't come to that. Kia kaha (stay strong)

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  13. I've faced this decision. NOT because Guvnor said he'd had enough but because it truly looks like TOGETHER we just can't make babies.

    Guvnor has ALWAYS said that for him I am enough. And honestly I didn't want babies until I met him. I didn't want babies, I wanted HIS babies, big difference. And so he would always be my choice.

    I find it ironic that Mo took you OUT to breakfast to have a chat about being in debt LOL. I get that he wants to get out of debt - don't we all but does that have to involve crushing your dreams?

    Big hugs my friend and I HOPE that he does change his mind.

    xxxxx

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  14. I would choose my husband if there were some scenario in which I had to - BUT. I can't imagine either me or my husband saying ABSOLUTELY NOT to something the other was attached to, other than for moral reasons. I'm the budget Nazi, so I can see me saying, "No to X on account of the price - but if we could do it for less, then maybe." (And there are always ways to cut the costs - there's an adoption tax credit, you could change jobs and get IVF covered by insurance, or whatever.) Even as opposed to adoption as I feel, and as clear as I am about how uncomfortable and opposed I am, I had to tell him that I may change my mind and he may change my mind and he is free to try to convince me (as long as he doesn't irritate me). And I know that he would never (in a sober and sure moment) categorically refuse to do something he thought truly important to me. Now, either of us might say anything in anger or frustration or fear, and stick with it while the emotion hangs on; but over the long term, we both want the other one to be happy and we are going to try to get on the same page.

    It does sound like Mo is just freaking out from an emotional place, and I think you're absolutely right to take it easy. I'd take his reaction seriously on the day on which you need him to actually sign on for a next step - until then, it just qualifies as venting. But I also think that he needs to be saying something more like, "This is how I feel and I want to be honest with you. I don't think I can do more of _____. BUT also I want to see you happy and take care of you and we have to figure out what we can do together to see our dreams realized and have a happy life." I mean - I don't always phrase anything that nicely :). But that has to be the bottom line. And while I'm opposed to divorce (seen too much crap in my family, among other things), if one spouse says, "I am more interested in this preference of mine than your happiness," he or she has to understand that all options are now on the table. That's kind of how these things work, I think...

    Anyway, sorry for the insanely long rant, and I'm so sorry you have to be at this juncture looking at these possibilities.

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  17. I have been in this situation. My husband will not consider donor egg or adoption. We have already done 4 IVF cycles without success. I am desperate for another option. I know this is not the popular choice, but my husband knows that I cannot be happy without being a mother and that I would be a single mother if I needed to. I know that is a terrible choice to make and it makes me so sad to utter those words to him and to type them here. I just know myself and what I can and cannot live without. Hang in there.

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  18. I'm so sorry.
    I can't really answer your question as to "what would I do?". By the time X and I split up, I had already come to realize that I couldn't have children with him unless he got some help and made some real changes. But, very different situation.

    Many, many hugs to you. One thing I realize from reading through the other comments is that everyone's situation is different, and everyONE is different. You will know what is right for you.

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  19. In the abstract, before being married, before TTC, and before IF, I would have chosen motherhood over marriage. I always wanted to be a mother more than I wanted to be a wife.

    Now, having been in a somewhat similar situation (though we have done less intervention than you; we are in mutual agreement to never do IVF with my eggs, and my husband refuses to adopt), I must say, I would choose my husband over a hypothetical future child. BUT we have a rock-solid relationship that I literally searched YEARS to find (we didn't meet until I was 36), and I know I would never again find someone who is a better fit for me. Plus I am at the end of my reproductive years, so moving on might allow me to become a mother through adoption but never by birth in any event.

    I hope you won't have to face that decision. It's hard to know what you'd do until/unless faced with it, and I think what is right for some, may not be right for others.

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  20. Oh Jo, I'm so very sorry that you're in this place. How awful. I admire you for remaining so calm during the conversation. I don't know that I could be like that. I agree with some of the previous posts, I wouldn't take this as the final verdict, it's just part of the conversation. For me though, if it really came down to it, I would choose my husband. I have to believe that no matter what, he will be in my life. That's the only thing that's stable and for sure.

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  21. I'm so sorry you are going through this. I love my husband, but I would choose motherhood. I just don't think I would feel complete without children. I REALLY hope it doesn't come to this though.

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  22. I'm so sorry that you're having to deal with this at all. For me, I can't imagine my life without my husband. I'd rather be childless and with my husband than have a child and not be with my husband. But, that's just me. I can't answer for you. As a previous commenter said, marriage is supposed to be "for better or for worse." I also agree that he may change his mind. He could just be going through a stressful time and, when things die down, he could very well re-think the situation.

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  23. With the husband I have, I would chose him over a baby. He is my life, my love, and my soul mate. I can NOT imagine living without him. I would definitely be devastated but he is number 1.

    That said, I do not have your relationship and marriage. I have mine. I can not presume to tell you what to do. All I can say is I will love you and support you no matter what.

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  24. Oh Jo!!! I'm so sorry that this happening. I'm in a holding pattern too and I know exactly how much it sucks. I'll pray for you guys that he'll change his mind (and maybe a prayer for winning the lottery would help too:). Don't give up hope you never know what's around the corner. I'll be thinking of you both.

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  25. I'm so sorry you're in this situation. (((Hugs)))

    I thought I had made that choice. I never pictured myself married, but I always thought I'd be a mother. We've almost broken up over this issue several times.

    The first time I found myself unexpectedly pregnant, he had already made it clear he wanted a termination in that situation. I was preparing to leave when I miscarried, and I didn't even tell him I had been pregnant until the due date rolled around.

    The second time, we were fighting after I found several websites in his internet history on living childfree by choice and he said that he had decided before we were married that he didn't want kids but didn't tell me for fear of a breakup. Then he said that he considered it "a fantastic piece of luck" that I had lost the first baby. (Yeah, I threw my rings at him and told him to get the hell out. He didn't go, and the second miscarriage really changed his mind on parenthood.)

    That said, I've realized that our reproductive problems are *mine*. It's likely not a matter of choosing between a husband or a baby for me. Hence, I'll choose to stick with the scenario where I know I have somebody.

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  26. That's a tough one. I don't think it's necessarily a matter of "child or husband" but rather "Am I willing to spend the rest of my life child-free with this person?" I also recommend counseling either for you alone or together, since this is a major conflict which could drive a wedge between you. Best of luck to you.

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  27. Baby. All the way.

    And here's why: I had a friend, let's call her "Patsy" who really, really wanted a baby. Her husband, "Chip", refused to do *any* kind of IF treatment. If it doesn't happen naturally, Chip said, he didn't want a baby. Patsy said "ok," because she loved Chip so much.

    Fast forward a few years and Chip has left my friend for another, younger woman, let's call her Kaylee. Fast forward another couple of years and Chip and Kaylee are happily married and have a pair of adorable boy-girl twins. Thanks to IVF, of course. Chip says he just changed his mind.

    Meanwhile, Patsy is single and childless.

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  28. Oh boy I'm so sorry :( Hopefully he changes his mind in the future (or actually, hopefully you just get pregnant without ART!)

    I'm actually in a similar situation though I haven't written about it on my blog. I would, and have, chosen my husband over ART and adoption. I'm not saying it's not incredibly difficult though.

    *hug*

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  29. wow, that's a hard question..because when you are where you are, the husband seems like the obvious /good/important choice (and then I read the story above this and swallowed hard ...jerk) because you HAVE him....instead of not having something...

    I don't know, we are in serious debt ourselves, because of the IVF and a host of things before doing it...and I know that my husband is worried about future, and we're in our 40's so retirement and college will come about the same time.,..it's someting that we don't like to think/talk about.

    however, when we have moments about the $$$ and I ask myself and him, well what if we never did IVF, and then we look at Gio and Jacob and the answer is simple..the $$$ was worth it, to look at them, to have them hug you...and your husband, I hope will come around to knowing that..

    hugs hugs, my friend.

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  30. Here from LFCA.

    When my partner wanted to put the brakes on my TTC process (mostly for financial reasons), I was faced with a similar decision. I decided that if I gave up the dream of carrying a child, I would resent her too much to remain in the relationship anyway. In order to be able to face myself at 80, I had to go forward. So I continued on and she eventually got on board. It was a scary gamble, though.

    It's a horrible choice to be faced with, and I'm sorry you're going through this.

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  31. I'm so so sorry. This has to be so hard but you sound like you're thinking rationally and not overreacting to what he said. Me...I would overreact for sure which is not good. If I had to chose I would pick my husband. BUT-I'm almost positive I would throw the biggist hissy-fit and might ruin things by fighting for a chance at a baby.

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  32. Hugs. Just. . .hugs.

    I guess when I married my husband, it was for better or for worse, but he also knew that children were extremely important to me. If he was to effectively block my ability to have children, then to me, that would be a deal breaker in our marriage. I love my husband very, very much, but I wanted to be a mother, and I knew that if I stayed in a marriage where that had been denied me, I would resent him and eventually, it would rot from the inside out.

    My husband was VERY against adoption, but I talked him into going to some seminars and fairs with me. It helped get him a little more exposed and used to the idea. He was getting on board with it when I got pregnant with our son. So perhaps see if there are any similar events happening and if he would consider at least going with you. My husband was uncomfortable with the idea of open adoption, but when we talked to families that had adopted, he got a different perspective. Who knows? It might make a difference for your husband.

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  33. I am so, so sorry you are going through this.
    There's no easy answer.
    Striking out on your own to try to become a single mother would be scary, and would not come with any guarantees.
    But at the same time, if you stayed with him and were never able to have children, I am concerned you would resent him, possibly to the point it could cause major harm to your marriage.
    The good news is, you're still fairly young. You don't have to make all your decisions right this second.
    I hope he comes around, I really do.
    If you do want to pursue adoption, I agree with previous posters that it would probably be helpful if he talked to others who have adopted.

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  34. I have made comments on my blog about this subject and it stirs up alot of emotions.

    I won't go into all my thoughts but I would choose children over my husband. It's been my dream since I was young woman. I don't want a great career, be a famouse actor, I want to be a mom. DH knew that about me very early on. He knows if he forced me to choose between him or having children I would choose children. I am willing to be a mom no matter how that looks; foster, adopt, donated eggs, etc. All I am asking DH to do is honor my dream instead of deny it. His dream is to climb the corporate ladder. Hence the many nights I sleep alone because he is traveling, attending meetings to fullfill that dream. I wouldn't ask him to stop succeding so I expect him to do the same for me.

    I spend lots of time in prayer about this subject and know god will direct me.

    Good luck to you and Mo.

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  35. I am so sorry that you and your husband are not on the same page right now.

    As for your question, I can't imagine a time when my husband would refuse to even consider alternative ways to become parents. (Having said that, my husband and I are very early on in our IF journey, and I know that time and sorrow can weigh heavily on a marriage). I honestly don't know what I do if my husband said he was unwilling to consider even adoption. At my core, I AM a mother. I would be very angry if he tried to prevent me from fulfilling that.

    But I also wonder sometimes if I am approaching this in a way that is going to cause problems down the road. I assume that my husband will do what I need him to do to make me a mother. And I find myself TELLING him things instead of ASKING. I know he knows I do it because I want to be a mother so badly, but when will he snap? I don't know.

    These are things I don't like to think about, and I am truly sorry that you are dealing with them. If I would give any advice, it would be to take things slowly. The emotions are so strong, and they can change at any moment. Good luck to you both!

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  36. This really is a tough question, and for a long time there was no doubt in my mind that I would pick motherhood. I just didn't think that I would ever be able to forgive Sweets for taking it away from me (by making me wait for so long), and it just wouldn't be fair for either one of us.

    When it came down to the very last cycle that we were willing to put in serious TTC effort, I surprised myself a LOT by realizing that ending our TTC days didn't necessarily mean the end of us. Quite frankly, I was shocked at the revelation.

    I guess I agree with everyone else in that you have a tough decision ahead. It may be that Mo is just having a freak out, or he may be trying to push you away because he's so stressed about the money.

    I hope it gets figured out soon, and I'm sorry that you're having to deal with this. it sucks.

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  37. I'm so sorry this is all happening.

    Its hard for me to say. I would choose my husband but would fear that I would resent him for making me make that choice.

    I wish this were easier for you and I do really hope that you and Mo can come together on this soon.

    Thinking of you.

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  38. Oh my god. My heart just aches for you. It is not a decision I would ever want to have to make. All I can say is that it's hard to make these decisions ahead of time. I know a lot of couples who have said "this is our last IVF" and then when that 'last' one was over they realised that they didn't feel finished afterall and they kept going. I hope he changes his mind because I can't imagine myself being able to accept a life without a child (or at least trying for one).
    Thinking of you. x

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  39. I am so sorry you're in this situation. I hope and pray that you two can get back on the same page soon. I don't know what I would do if I were in your shoes, but I think I'd choose my husband...I just don't know.

    I really came over to let you know you're on my heart today. I'm sitting and remembering with you on what must be a very had day for you. (((hugs)))

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  40. thinking of you today. Hope you are treating yourself gently today. Big hugs.

    I read through the first comments and it struck me - as in so many things, there is a divide at work, between marriages that really truly seem to work, and marriages, like yours and mine, that have their challenges. I don't understand at all a marriage that doesn't have the same types of challenges that both you and I face. (not that our challenges are the same, but I think you know what I mean - we don't have the same type of marriages that some of your commenter do).

    Long ago, when I was in the throes of our infertility struggles, I looked and my husband and was shocked when I suddenly thought, "he is not enough." That is, that if we were not able to have children, because he made the decision not to try, that was not going to fly, because a lifetime of him wasn't enough for me. It was a stunning realization.

    Oh Jo. I am sending you lots of hugs today.

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  41. Sorry I'm so late to comment, but I haven't had a chance to catch up on things lately and I kept saving this as 'unread' because I wanted to respond.

    Being on the flip side of the baby thing I know I'm speaking in 'what-ifs'...but my husband and I had this very conversation. He didn't want children and I very much did. He did tell me he didn't want to do any treatments, told me he didn't want to do a second after the first one failed, and my heart was broken. He said that he was afraid, however, to end the conversation there because he thought I would leave him if he didn't agree to continue.

    That being said, I think it depends on where the relationship is in the first place. I told him then, that it would break my heart into a million pieces but that I would find a way to deal because I would not leave him. Of course who knows what the reality would have been, because it felt so hopeless to hear him even say those words. I don't know that I wouldn't have left eventually...my desire for children was SO overwhelming.

    In the end he came around...but he only did it for me and not because he changed his views on having children. As wonderful as he is to our son I know he would have been just as happy without kids.

    I hope for you. I hope he comes around. I hope there is some solution that you can both reach together.

    Thinking of you.

    I hope

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