Most of the time, I write a post in a single sitting. I hit "publish" before I have the chance to chicken out. A lot of what I write is emotional, written in the "heat" of the moment. Even my more academic posts are written after a lot of thought -- but only one session at the computer.
This one is different. It has taken me several days to find the words to say that I wanted to say, without giving more fodder to an anonymous person who clearly has already formed quite a judgmental opinion of me. I hope that Jenny and the other various bloggers who disagreed with my initial post will read this and better understand the point I was trying to make. You do not have to agree with me, but I think there is value in trying to understand different points of view. So here goes:
Dear Jenny Blogger,
I wanted to take a moment to respond to your comment that was left on my blog (in other words, at MY house) on Mother's Day, a particularly painful day for me and millions of others.
You weren't the only person to disagree with me, but your comment stood out because of the hurtful things you said. I have tried to look past that, however, and to give you the courtesy of thinking about and digesting what you had to say.
Because that's what I do. Instead of writing a scathing reply to an unknown stranger and calling them names, I prefer to really think about your comments and try to see where you are coming from. And so I have. I can honestly say that I think you misread some (though not all) of my statements, and you clearly missed the big picture I was trying to get across. Here's what you had to say:
"I am sorry for the pain that infertility has caused you. But you are so far off base its saddening and maddening all at once. By your logic, no one should celebrate anything because those who can't celebrate it are marginalized. Should we not celebrate sports victories? because some people have injuries or handicaps and can't play. Should we not celebrate birthdays? Because some people have died and can't celebrate anymore. Should we not celebrate graduation? because some people aren't smart enough or don't have enough time or money to finish.
Have you stopped to think that maybe society is onto something with the way mothers are held so high? Its true that you can know love and take care of others without being a mother. But the love a mother has for a child --whether adopted or birthed -- is unlike any other. Sure there are moms who fail their children and shouldn't be mothers. There are failures in every role in life.
If knocking others and diminishing the reality of motherhood makes you feel better, then so be it. But your words really just make you look like a bitter, angry woman who is lashing out at mothers out of jealousy."
Whew. Let's tackle your comments one at a time, shall we? You begin by apologizing for "the pain that infertility has caused me." You immediately follow this up with a big word: BUT. Which, as an adult, I know that you realize pretty much negates the previous statement you just made. Think of the last time someone you loved said, "I'm sorry, but...." How did that make you feel? Did you feel as though that person truly understood your point of view? Or were they just throwing out the obligatory apology before telling you that they really AREN'T sorry, and that you are wrong? You would have been better served leaving that insincere apology out of your comment, seeing as though it seems as if you didn't really mean it. (You don't even know me, so I don't know that I really blame you for that, but it still irks me that you have tried to sound kind while at the same time ripping me a new asshole.)
In the next few sentences, you give some examples of things that you believe I think (or said) that we should not celebrate. You state that you are simply following my "logic." Well, logical or not, I don't agree that we shouldn't celebrate those things. I love birthdays, am an avid MyState College football fan, and celebrate my students' "graduation" every year. I would like to point out, though, that neither sports victories, birthdays, or graduations are national holidays. Stores do not have "Jo's Birthday" sales (though wouldn't that be awesome!), and no one (except my husband) is guilted into buying me gifts or saying sweet things about me on a particular day of the year.
But beyond all that superficial stuff -- and this is really where my biggest gripe lies -- no one posts stories on the Internet (that are "liked" by lots of people) saying that people who can't walk don't understand what athletic competition is like. Neither would it be acceptable to say that people who haven't graduated from college aren't "real" adults who don't understand how hard it is to have a good-paying job with benefits. No one is marginalized when you celebrate the achievements of someone you love. The problem lies in society's expression of the myth that to be a "real" woman, you must have children. Mother's Day is just a small part of that prevalent thought process, one that is expressed in a thousand small ways every single day of the year.
In the next paragraph, you ask me if I have "stopped to think." Um, yes. I think A LOT. Especially about motherhood, feminism, and the role of women in society. I think about how to go about achieving motherhood, and what I am going to do if I can't. I think about why society venerates motherhood, and in my opinion, it has less to do with celebrating their hard work and more to do with maintaining the status quo and keeping mothers in a specified role (that of caretakers of children and the home). I spend an ungodly amount of time thinking about motherhood, its role in my life, and its role in the lives of other women.
I will not argue with your statement that the love a mother has for her child is like nothing else. I do not dispute that, as I have no personal experience as to whether or not that's true. I would tend to disagree with a blanket assumption, though, that it is true for every parent. I see evidence to the contrary every single day in my profession. The acceptable propaganda is that being a mother surpasses all other achievements in life, but the reality is that it is different for every woman. To assume that the love you feel for your child is the same love every mother feels for their child flies in the face of all of the horror stories we read about and hear on the news, way too often than we would like to admit.
I thank you for agreeing with me that people CAN experience love outside of parenthood. Again, though, you do the rest of us a disservice when you elevate one type of love (that of parent-child) over other types of love. Isn't all love great? Shouldn't all love be celebrated? I dislike the hierarchy of love, and the point I was trying to make is that all humanity benefits from humans loving each other, in all the various forms that takes.
I am unsure about what your comment about "failures" has to do with what I was trying to say. Unless you were just trying to point out that women who don't parent, or who parent the "wrong" way, are failures. In which case I both agree and disagree. There are horribly abusive parents out there that probably never should have had children, and I think we both agree that they have "failed" in their role as parents. But to say that there are failures in all roles in life smacks loudly of a judgemental attitude that I just don't share. What constitutes a failure to you? Is a woman who doesn't have children a "failure?" Because that is a common, unspoken attitude held by many and we childless women are confronted with that myth on a daily basis. What other "failures" are you referring to? Is a person who doesn't graduate a failure? A person with a crappy, dead-end job? A person who is alientated from their family? A person who makes poor choices and ends up in jail? I have personally known people from all of these walks of life, and would classify none of them as "failures." But, again, that's where we differ.
You then accuse me of "knocking" and "diminishing" the role of mothers, in order to feel better about myself. I did not intend to "knock" or "diminish" anyone's choices -- including that of becoming a mother.
In fact, in my post, I pointed out that I know lots of amazing moms.
**Sidebar: Several others apparently read my post this same way, and I have re-read and re-read my words, trying to see where I demeaned motherhood. I didn't, and it was never my intention to do so. All was trying to say was that mothers aren't the only ones who sacrifice and love others. **
My point -- and the one you missed -- was that it's not only moms that deserve our recognition and respect. That LOTS of different kinds of people -- many of whom are not parents -- do similar jobs, and that we should recognize ALL types of "mothering" and of love and self-sacrifice. In so doing, I noted that mothers are particularly self-sacrificing, that they put others ahead of themselves, and that they do tedious and difficult things every day. How is that "diminishing" their role? I don't believe it is.
I do believe that pointing out that other, non-moms, are also capable of doing tedious, hard, and loving things for others makes me feel better. Knowing that I am valuable, that my worth is not defined by my ability to bear or raise children, makes me feel better. So, on that point, you are right. Writing my post DID make me feel better, which is kind of the point. To put my feelings into words, to validate them, to organize them, to make sense of them. All of this makes me feel better, which is why this blog exists in the first place.
I believe that mothers have a particularly difficult job. They, however, do not have a monopoly on hard or difficult jobs. I am a teacher at a low-income, high-poverty school -- my job is oftentimes heartbreakingly hard and difficult. I would never say, though, that anyone who is not a teacher, or who doesn't teach at the same kind of school, doesn't understand what a "hard" or "low-paying" job is. Because the reality is that LOTS of jobs are difficult, low-paying, and often unrecognized. When you specifically exclude a segment of the population, and you claim that they are "less" than you because they haven't had the same experiences, well, that's just wrong.
Your final statement, in which you call me a "bitter, angry woman" who is "jealous" of mothers is probably the most accurate statement you made (and, as you intended, the most hurtful). I am both bitter and angry at all that infertility has robbed me of, and I've written about that many times before. I am most certainly jealous of other mothers, another troubling feeling that I have written about as I try to deal with my jealousy in the least destructive way possible. But I ask you this: does the fact that I am human and possess these human feelings negate what I was trying to say? I suppose that to you, it does. Because I am not a mom, you dismiss my arguments out of hand. Because I am not a mom, I don't understand and therefore you don't have to listen to what I have to say.
And THAT is the problem that I was railing against. I have no issue with giving your mother flowers, or taking her out to dinner, or with every mom on the planet receiving breakfast in bed one day a year. None of that matters. What DOES matter is how we make other people feel, every day of the year. What matters is that we, as a society, diminish non-moms and dismiss them because they don't have children. What matters is that we recognize only one kind of mother, and we ignore all of the others that don't fit that mold. What matters is that we don't recognize, publicly, that your value as a woman is not tied to the state of your uterus.
I am positive that I will get a chorus of moms disagreeing with me on this, and your perception is valid. As a mom, you may or may not have experienced what I experience as a childless woman. I don't know how long you have battled infertility, if at all, or what scars you carry with you. I don't know what common ground we share. It is not difficult for me to imagine that you think I am crazy, that I am imagining these perceived slights because I am jealous, and angry, and bitter.
And, maybe, you are right.* But, maybe, just maybe, you are not. Maybe childless women ARE treated differently. Maybe, just maybe, women who do not have children (whether by choice or not) do feel undervalued, diminished, and ignored by the more prolific population. ** Maybe our decisions are questioned, or met with scorn and ridicule. Maybe we are told, over and over again, that our lives do not truly begin until we become mothers. Maybe that meme you forwarded, expressing how only moms know what "real" _____________ is caused more heartbreak than you know.
My post was intended not to bash mothers, but to lift up those who are continuously battling the long-held stereotypes of womanhood equaling motherhood. It was intended to let those childless/motherless/abused/infertile/uninterested/career-minded/single/babyloss women know that the love and sacrifice and joy that they spread every single day is just as valuable as that given by moms.
I've looked carefully, and nowhere in my post did I say that we shouldn't celebrate Mother's Day, or birthdays, or graduations. What I did say was that the WAY we celebrate it, and more specifically the way our society treats women who AREN'T mothers, upsets me. And then I attempted to reach out to those who are sitting down with me (while everyone else is standing and getting the accolades), and to let them know that they do matter, that they do have worth.
Think of it as elevating all women to honorific status, not as tearing down mothers. Mother's Day itself isn't the problem. The problem lies much deeper, at the heart of our society's veneration of motherhood, deserved or undeserved. It lies in the lie that motherhood is an achievable and desirable goal for all women, and that mothers do something that other people cannot.
I am unsure about what your comment about "failures" has to do with what I was trying to say. Unless you were just trying to point out that women who don't parent, or who parent the "wrong" way, are failures. In which case I both agree and disagree. There are horribly abusive parents out there that probably never should have had children, and I think we both agree that they have "failed" in their role as parents. But to say that there are failures in all roles in life smacks loudly of a judgemental attitude that I just don't share. What constitutes a failure to you? Is a woman who doesn't have children a "failure?" Because that is a common, unspoken attitude held by many and we childless women are confronted with that myth on a daily basis. What other "failures" are you referring to? Is a person who doesn't graduate a failure? A person with a crappy, dead-end job? A person who is alientated from their family? A person who makes poor choices and ends up in jail? I have personally known people from all of these walks of life, and would classify none of them as "failures." But, again, that's where we differ.
You then accuse me of "knocking" and "diminishing" the role of mothers, in order to feel better about myself. I did not intend to "knock" or "diminish" anyone's choices -- including that of becoming a mother.
In fact, in my post, I pointed out that I know lots of amazing moms.
**Sidebar: Several others apparently read my post this same way, and I have re-read and re-read my words, trying to see where I demeaned motherhood. I didn't, and it was never my intention to do so. All was trying to say was that mothers aren't the only ones who sacrifice and love others. **
My point -- and the one you missed -- was that it's not only moms that deserve our recognition and respect. That LOTS of different kinds of people -- many of whom are not parents -- do similar jobs, and that we should recognize ALL types of "mothering" and of love and self-sacrifice. In so doing, I noted that mothers are particularly self-sacrificing, that they put others ahead of themselves, and that they do tedious and difficult things every day. How is that "diminishing" their role? I don't believe it is.
I do believe that pointing out that other, non-moms, are also capable of doing tedious, hard, and loving things for others makes me feel better. Knowing that I am valuable, that my worth is not defined by my ability to bear or raise children, makes me feel better. So, on that point, you are right. Writing my post DID make me feel better, which is kind of the point. To put my feelings into words, to validate them, to organize them, to make sense of them. All of this makes me feel better, which is why this blog exists in the first place.
I believe that mothers have a particularly difficult job. They, however, do not have a monopoly on hard or difficult jobs. I am a teacher at a low-income, high-poverty school -- my job is oftentimes heartbreakingly hard and difficult. I would never say, though, that anyone who is not a teacher, or who doesn't teach at the same kind of school, doesn't understand what a "hard" or "low-paying" job is. Because the reality is that LOTS of jobs are difficult, low-paying, and often unrecognized. When you specifically exclude a segment of the population, and you claim that they are "less" than you because they haven't had the same experiences, well, that's just wrong.
Your final statement, in which you call me a "bitter, angry woman" who is "jealous" of mothers is probably the most accurate statement you made (and, as you intended, the most hurtful). I am both bitter and angry at all that infertility has robbed me of, and I've written about that many times before. I am most certainly jealous of other mothers, another troubling feeling that I have written about as I try to deal with my jealousy in the least destructive way possible. But I ask you this: does the fact that I am human and possess these human feelings negate what I was trying to say? I suppose that to you, it does. Because I am not a mom, you dismiss my arguments out of hand. Because I am not a mom, I don't understand and therefore you don't have to listen to what I have to say.
And THAT is the problem that I was railing against. I have no issue with giving your mother flowers, or taking her out to dinner, or with every mom on the planet receiving breakfast in bed one day a year. None of that matters. What DOES matter is how we make other people feel, every day of the year. What matters is that we, as a society, diminish non-moms and dismiss them because they don't have children. What matters is that we recognize only one kind of mother, and we ignore all of the others that don't fit that mold. What matters is that we don't recognize, publicly, that your value as a woman is not tied to the state of your uterus.
I am positive that I will get a chorus of moms disagreeing with me on this, and your perception is valid. As a mom, you may or may not have experienced what I experience as a childless woman. I don't know how long you have battled infertility, if at all, or what scars you carry with you. I don't know what common ground we share. It is not difficult for me to imagine that you think I am crazy, that I am imagining these perceived slights because I am jealous, and angry, and bitter.
And, maybe, you are right.* But, maybe, just maybe, you are not. Maybe childless women ARE treated differently. Maybe, just maybe, women who do not have children (whether by choice or not) do feel undervalued, diminished, and ignored by the more prolific population. ** Maybe our decisions are questioned, or met with scorn and ridicule. Maybe we are told, over and over again, that our lives do not truly begin until we become mothers. Maybe that meme you forwarded, expressing how only moms know what "real" _____________ is caused more heartbreak than you know.
My post was intended not to bash mothers, but to lift up those who are continuously battling the long-held stereotypes of womanhood equaling motherhood. It was intended to let those childless/motherless/abused/infertile/uninterested/career-minded/single/babyloss women know that the love and sacrifice and joy that they spread every single day is just as valuable as that given by moms.
I've looked carefully, and nowhere in my post did I say that we shouldn't celebrate Mother's Day, or birthdays, or graduations. What I did say was that the WAY we celebrate it, and more specifically the way our society treats women who AREN'T mothers, upsets me. And then I attempted to reach out to those who are sitting down with me (while everyone else is standing and getting the accolades), and to let them know that they do matter, that they do have worth.
Think of it as elevating all women to honorific status, not as tearing down mothers. Mother's Day itself isn't the problem. The problem lies much deeper, at the heart of our society's veneration of motherhood, deserved or undeserved. It lies in the lie that motherhood is an achievable and desirable goal for all women, and that mothers do something that other people cannot.
And, my friends, that is simply not true. We are all capable of love, and worthy of honor and respect, whether the person we are taking care of is six years old or sixty.
And, despite your harsh words the other day, I believe we are all capable of compassion, and understanding, and forgiveness. And so I apologize to you, Jenny, if you felt belittled by my post. I don't agree with your interpretation of my words, or of my goal in writing them. I do think that, as women, we really should strive to build each other up instead of tear each other down, even when we approach issues from opposite sides of the fence. Instead of calling names and making the rift between us even greater, wouldn't it be nice if both moms and non-moms alike could work together to make sure that everyone on Planet Earth felt valued, appreciated, and honored for the work that they do?
The ALI-blogosphere has always been a safe place for women in all stages of child-loss, child-seeking, child-rearing, and even permanent childlessness to express themselves. I'd like it to stay that way. The only way for that to happen, though, is if we open up our hearts and really listen to what each of us has to say. You are more than welcome to write a post about what Mother's Day means to you, or why you hate Cinco de Mayo, or what your favorite recipe for salad dressing is.
I promise that, while I won't agree with you on any of those points, I will value you as a contributor, a woman, and a human being -- no matter how many kids you do (or don't) have.
END RANT. :-)
I promise that, while I won't agree with you on any of those points, I will value you as a contributor, a woman, and a human being -- no matter how many kids you do (or don't) have.
END RANT. :-)
* You aren't.
** We are.

Hear hear! Exactly!
ReplyDeleteI agree with so much of this that I don't even know where to start. But I think this sums it up nicely, and is why I still have a problem with Mother's Day, even though I now technically qualify to celebrate it:
ReplyDelete"Mother's Day itself isn't the problem. The problem lies much deeper, at the heart of our society's veneration of motherhood, deserved or undeserved. It lies in the lie that motherhood is an achievable and desirable goal for all women, and that mothers do something that other people cannot."
The only part of Mother's Day that feels right for me is celebrating my own amazing mom. Beyond that, I don't like the holiday and all that it implies about mothers and non-mothers. How can I feel good about a holiday that excludes and marginalizes some of the most loving, brilliant, nurturing women I know, simply because their bodies have failed them? How can I feel good about a holiday that venerates (and practically canonizes women) who have fully functioning reproductive organs, yet are neglectful and abusive toward their children?
I get what you're saying. I feel what you're saying. And I thank you for saying it.
It just seems so much like a "I am only more if you are less than" method (from "them", not from you). I too hated Mother's Day once I began and proceeded to fail at my family building efforts. It was just such a painful reminder of what I desperately wanted and couldn't have. Now that I am a mother (via adoption), Mother's Day has become my day to be grateful for my babies, for their birth mother and for my mom. It is still uncomfortable and not a day for me to claim the day to be exhalted. It shouldn't be for anyone yet I hear women complaining all the time about how their Mother's Day didn't live up to their standards. Um, hello?! Why so much expectation?! Anywho, my point is that I think you are way on the mark and that a Women's Day would be oh so much more appropriate and inclusive. My heart hurts for you and all others still waiting and fighting for their dreams.
ReplyDeleteEverything that you said, and Jenny May, too.
ReplyDeleteSo many women have been 'mothers' to me, some that had children and others that didn't. And I agree with R & T that hearing women complain about how mother's day doesn't live up to their standards sickens me. I even read an article where a woman said it was ok to grieve on mother's day if you had a child with special needs who didn't shower you with gifts that were, you know, as perfect as the presents your friend got. How crazy is that? Now women have to have the perfect proposal, the perfect wedding, the perfect pregnancy, and the perfect mother's day? It is waaaay too much pressure for me.
I'm sorry that you got attacked, Jo. You shouldn't have to explain yourself on your own blog. But you did a great job of it anyway :)
(standing & applauding) Hear, hear!! (And what Chickenpig said above too.)
ReplyDeleteIt is 2 a.m., and I have insomnia. I can't sleep because my future father-in-law (who is Korean) responded to the announcement of our upcoming elopement with a speech about how he has struggled to accept that I am the woman his son has fallen in love with and will marry. He has struggled because "it is not Korean way for a man to marry a woman older than he is; I worried about you being healthy and being able to have children." He did not say that he no longer cares about that (he knows I have had 5 losses and 1 failed IVF). He did not say that he now realizes what a wonderful woman I am, despite the fact that I am not able to have children. He did not say that regardless of my reproductive ability, his son is lucky to have met me. He said, instead, "I *have* to accept it. I have to accept it, because I want to participate in your lives."
ReplyDeleteSo I am tossing and turning and I reach for my laptop. And I find your post. And I start to cry.
I feel like you are saying directly to me that I am valuable, that I am a prize. That I love just as well, just as deeply. That I am able of just as much sacrifice and unconditional love as women who have eggs that undergo meiosis better than mine and become mothers easily.
He might as well have said: "I am stuck with old, infertile you forever, I know that, so now I just want to make the best of it."
Yes, we are made to feel less than. Undervalued, diminished, unworthy? A bazillion times yes! I know I am responsible for my own reactions, but I have not yet reached Enlightenment, and it hurts, I hurt.
That deeper problem you mention---the veneration of motherhood at the expense of honoring other forms of mothering women do, the expectation that "real women" should (and should be able to) enter that stage or they have not earned an honored place in our society---is global, and it is ancient, and we need to change it. Mother's Day isn't the problem. It's those deeper, long-held ideas and beliefs about women, and the multitude of stigmas they produce.
I am NOT something anyone should have to struggle to accept! Just because of my ovaries! Just because I am not a mother but have instead miscarried! I still love well and work diligently and have dedicated my life to helping others. I am still a really awesome person.
I needed to read your words tonight. Thank you for taking the time to carefully articulate your thoughts and share them with us. I feel validated and strengthened by all you have written. It's an honor to be invited into your house. This is not a place for attacking, but a place for supporting. Out there in the world---like at that dinner table with my future father-in-law---we have to bite our tongues constantly! We bite our tongues. We don't respond. We nod and smile to the countless hurtful, careless, uneducated comments, in order to preserve our relationships. But here in our houses, we shout sometimes! We make declarations. We stand up for one another. If we can't do that here, in our sister-cyberworld, where can we?
Applauding you from across the pond, Jo.
ReplyDeleteUnexpectedtrip, I am so sorry for what you have been through.
Hear! Hear!
ReplyDeleteAll we need is love...
Hear! Hear!
ReplyDeleteAll we need is love...
I completely agree with you that statements like "you don't know love until you're a parent" are hurtful, and in my opinion, untrue. I'm a parent, and I love my children, but I don't believe that I know some higher love solely because of that fact.
ReplyDeleteI think, though, that you are taking these declarations from a few and assuming that all (most?) parents feel the same way. I don't think you know less love because you don't have a child, and I would bet that a lot of people feel the same. So i think what rubbed jenny blogger the wrong way, although of course i cant speak for her, is that you painted all people with the same brush.
Please correct me if I'm wrong in my assumptions :).
Bravo Jo!!!
ReplyDeleteI'm quickly becoming a believer that anyone who makes comparison statements like "you don't know love until you're a parent" is someone who is struggling in life in general. They have to make comparisons in order to feel slightly better about themselves simply because most days they struggle to look in the mirror. What's especially wrong about all of this is that this comparison is made over something no one really has control over.
Over the years, I've had many "mothers" come into my life who don't have children. And yet these women live full lives that make so many around them marvel at their strength and ability to love. These women have been formative in my growth, providing me with opportunities and showing me paths that I never knew existed. And they cheered me on in ways that traditional mothers have failed to do. Hence there is no way anyone can ever justify that comparison to me. Though I am beyond excited to meet my children, in no way do I assume that simply having them in my life will make me able to love more. That's something each of us needs to find within ourselves.
I'll end by saying this: you having already shown you are a "real" woman. You show that day in and day out by your actions, not by your status. The fact that you put out a call to honor all those who make sacrifices in our lives to make a difference instead of honor a subset at the expense of others shows that. So, keep pushing for that change. It's happening.
Wonderful post. And unexpectedtrip had a great expansion- there are so many ways that people make others feel 'less than'. Our monkey brains are (unfortunately) really good at constantly comparing things and this brings the pain Olympics- who 'deserves' what, and who is 'good' or 'worthy'. I've got several of those, with perhaps a big one being that as an atheist, many people automatically don't like or understand me. And I had that with infertility until it luckily got resolved (and then turned into 'are you having more?')- just stop the insanity. Unfortunately it takes many people's personal experience with tragedy of some sort to gain empathy. I can even empathasize with the mom someone mocked above who didn't get awesome presents because their kids are special needs since I have an introverted son who refuses to participate in any school activities. I struggle with feeling like the odd person out again ( after infertility) and some Shame that people think I'm a failure as a mom for his actions, and shame that I even wish he were more like other kids sometimes! So I get tired of feeling bad... And feeling bad, for feeling bad.. And again, if we could just look at each other with open hearts and empathy
ReplyDeleteFirstly I would like to say that your post has given me that shiver at the back of the neck, the arm hairs standing up like soldiers going into battle. I feel so sad that you have had to explain this to someone whom I feel is on a one way track to selfdom. I have only experienced a breif struggle with getting pregnant so I had a glimpse into that painful world, the days, the nights, the losing the plot in from of a slightly panicked doctor. My little spot within this family now is that I am a mum whose child died, a mum who had had to organise her childs funeral. I get to see both sides (I think). I am eternally stuck in this dilemma of when a person eets me for the first time it is almost a certainty that if they are parents of a living child they will say with a smile "do you have children?". I know that if on that occasion I dont want to make them look mortified and I say "No" then it is instant in most cases that I feel unworthy, like I didn't get the promotion and therefore I am at the bottom of the food chain. Point is, I think the above explained it perfectly, this person is so lucky to have had you give them the time of day, let alone try to give them some sort of insight into another persons life. I admire you alot for the thought and words you wrote, something that you should never have had to do outside in the big world or worse still, in your HOME. XXXXXX I want to say hooorah for you & hope you can now wipe this from your mind, surely you have enough on your plate already!.X
ReplyDeleteI want to expand to what unexpectedtrip said. I know a lot of people deal with toxic family members; I have. Someone who "has to accept you" is toxic even if he never yells. It seems to me that most people's reaction to this sort of toxicity is to "forgive" it (I use quotes because forgiveness implies recognizing a serious wrong and getting past it - and most people these days instead try to minimize the wrong, which is self-deceptive and doesn't result in the necessary healing - you'd be better off refusing to forgive indefinitely, until you really feel that you can) and allow it to occupy a regular place in their lives - spreading its poison, creating unhappiness, undermining marriages and families.
ReplyDeleteI want to say that this is not the only option. This is something you have to work out with your husband, but if you have a family member who simply DISLIKES your spouse - or worse yet, fails to respect him or her - that person needs to spend as little time with you as possible. Preferrably none. I know most people see this as impossible, but I assure you that it is possible: you can say, "I love my wife, dad. I don't 'tolerate' her and I won't force her to be around someone who should love her and doesn't respect her or value her, and to listen to someone tearing her down. She is a wonderful person and should never have to hear that, and I won't allow her to be hurt that way. If you love her, then you should spend time with us. If you don't value her, you can spend time with yourself. If your perspective changes, by all means let me know."
People act as though temporary estrangement is an unthinkable harm. I say, maintaining regular contact with toxic people is the biggest harm POSSIBLE - permanent estrangement would be preferrable. You CAN cut off contact. Sometimes that's the only thing that makes toxic people understand that they MUST respect others.
My father tried to emotionally punish me into not marrying my husband (or maybe just to GENERICALLY emotionally punish me because our engagement upset him - yes, he is that immature). Sure, my marriage has had significant difficulties, but my father's reaction wasn't to any of those, because he didn't know about them, because (shocking!) he wasn't closely involved in my life, hearing about my ups and downs, my relationships. He didn't want to be; he wanted to throw tantrums when he couldn't script the lives of every person in the family. But he doesn't get to do that. He didn't talk to me for three years. I made sure I waited to come home (to my uncle's house) for Christmas until I had given him PLENTY of time to think about it. And he has sincerely apologized, and said that what he did was wrong. Which is great - but by the time he said it, I didn't need to hear it. That's good and bad - I am independent of his behavior. But on the other hand - I don't NEED him in my life. That's the right relationship to a toxic person - but he might have liked things to be different! Too bad he didn't think about that before he decided to hurt someone he "loved."
You don't have to accept this standing rejection. You have options. Think about it.
sigh..."expand" = "respond"
ReplyDeleteOoh, and I missed an important point: how did your test go??? I assume it's not cancer, but I was worried there when we didn't hear from you for a while!
ReplyDeleteI didn't reply to the other posts but I read them and I totally agree. This was very said.
ReplyDeleteI, for one, completely agree with you on Mother's Day -- my husband suffers EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Actually, he suffers every single day, because his mom died 10 years ago. But to have it rubbed in his face by marketers, mass emailers, FB friends, etc. on an annual basis is really unfair. Plus, it's not like the message is always, "Aren't moms great?" (which would be fine, I guess). It's usually, "Have you called your mother today to tell her how much you love her?" (not possible in hubby's case), or "Remember to buy your mom flowers next week!" (again, not possible). You can NOT compare it to birthdays or sports events, for crying out loud... the only slightly comparable holiday is Valentine's Day, which pisses of single people, but hardly to the same extent. Anyway -- nice rebuttal!!
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